The Speculist

15. If you answered yes, above, how will the Technological Singularity bring us closer to God? If you answered no, why don't you think it will?

Responses:

God?

Or said differently, closer to enlightenment? I can be bigger, faster, stronger, smarter. But if unknowable aspects to the universe remain?????

Yes-no-sorta... those people inclined to think that way may get a big charge out of the singularity, but others won't.

All progress brings us closer.

The same reason it won't bring you any closer to Shangri-La, Lilliput, Narnia, or Perelandra.

I'm not positive that the question is answerable as simply as "yes" or "no."

Umm... there is no God? But seriously, Einstien, Edison, and others have used 'God' to refer to a non-anthropomorphic, un-emotional, not-even-concious supreme intelligence that is connected to and responsible for the entire architecture of the universe. We will certainly have a greater connection to that thing as our technological power and scientific understanding grows.

Can't see how increased ability to produce material things will change human nature.

Since I don't think God exists, how could it?

No more than it will bring us closer to Santa Claus.

There is only way to be closer to God. To know Him. To believe in what He has said. To trust that He will do all that He says He will do, just as He always has. Being closer to God is really recognizing Him for who He is, who He already knows He is. Its an individual choice. Salvation is open to all, but many will not choose it. He has given us a gift, but many will choose not to accept it. Just as they always have. The Singularity will not affect this.

we will be able to understand much more of what "god" created. why and how. i do not believe in god as a conscious being. i believe god is everything and nothing.

Because God is by definiton unknowable.

It's a personal thing - not dependent on outside forces.

all development in the ages have resulted in a freeing of man from the oppression of want. and allow the exercise of human potentioal in precieving God.

Because of immortality and omnipotence.

The fundamental need in man is to reflect the image of the Creator. The fundamental flaw in man is separation from God due to moral failings. The more power that mankind has, the more power that moral failing has. the TS might, in fact, aggravate the issue. For a really profound read in this area, see "The Abolition of Man" by C. S. Lewis. It is a short and profound book from someone who asserts the TS and finds fault with it.

God does not exist.

A form of "Galatic globalisation" allowing contact with higher orders :)

Unknown and unknowable.

God gave mankind the opportunity to grow and develop. He has allowed us to learn from our mistakes, with a minimum of interference. Those who understand this will accept a closer relationship with God.

We are parts of God. I can't imagine getting closer to something we are already a part of. Actually, I should say that I believe we are already parts of God, as is everything in existence.

See my previous answer.

a great deal of the currrent and past religion stories forbid their members to even approach the capabilities of a god and a lot of these belif systems could not forsee the evloution of science and a technological base culture that could eventually develop a singualrity let alone harness this developent.

Like all technology it'll make it easier to be closer to God while at the same time make it easier to reject Him.

Hey!? Atheist here! Not believing in God. Sorry, been watching Buffy episodes lately. Joss Whedon's verbal style is rubbing off on my writing.

Yes but with the same stipulations as 13.

It's all God's plan.

"Closeness" to God can be achieved without Technoligical Singularity. (How is "close" defined in this statement?)

There is no God. There could be a Sysop of some sort, but in that case I doubt singularity would be allowed to happen.

God is revealed in every bit of all that exists. This will be no different.

The TS will be able to define material reality, that will allow those who wish to concentrate there efforts to know God and the meaning of life, with no earthly distractions.

Again, from the human ability to have a concept of God, the idea of a Technological Singularity is just an extension. If we don't believe in God then in many respects the Technological Singularity becomes out God

In the sense of the 'idea' of God - yes. We'll be closer in capacity to the generally accepted ideas of the capabilities and scope of God.

it will increase possibility

Go ask God. I don't know.

God's technological capabilities in creating the universe would seem to be at least on par with the sort of technological capabilities a post-singularity human society would have; while there would likely be fundamental limits on human capabilites that an extra-universal God would not have, simply by virtue of being outside of the system, it would certainly be far closer and likely more able to understand God's nature and motives.

Yes, *if* there is a God, we will be able to comprehend more of Its motives and methods.

God is a currently untestable hypothesis; any means to get around that can therefore not be predicted by us now. (For long reasons I will not go into) Therefore the chances are 50-50, therefore we assume nothing systematic is happening as per the null hypothesis.

Assuming that increased abilities to observe and understand the universe do not allow us to actually perceive God in some sort of irrefutable way, they, along with improved ability to manipulate matter and energy will certainly bring us closer to becoming god-like. If nothing else, it'll give us more time to pray.

Again, not a yes or no question. Technology is a tool only. Technology could bring us closer to God about as much as drugs can today (and some people swear that drugs do just this--some say sex does as well, for that matter). No matter how knowledgable we become we will never know it all, and that desire to know the unknowable will fuel our desire to believe in God.

I'm actually neutral, the TS will likely be a tool and generally neither benign nor malgin except depending on its users.

The two concepts don't intesect

I answered yes, but please see my response to question 13, as again, they are very similar to one another.

God is not a destination either in the physical or spiritual sense.

If God is Omnipresent, then "closeness" would seem to involve an emotional or relational awareness of contact and interaction. Most who achieve a state they describe as being "close to God" today do it without technology, although some form of brain-altering technology might be able to assist. Post-Singularity, if we still exist, we may well be more aware of how much we don't know and experience, and we may find out how difficult interacting with a higher form of life is, making God feel even more distant.

I think it will bring us closer to "God", the question will become what is "God"

If there is a God of whom this Cosmos is a golden reflection, then why would that God play favorites. Technological Singularity presents an obstacle just like astronomy or biology. It is a challenge to human beings not in coming to terms with God. That is not important. What is important is coming to terms with ourselves. We might lose sight of ourselves in the incredible sensory world of a post-Technological Singularity.

I don't know.

What god?

Since I have grave doubts about the existence of God, I doubt that there is anything that will bring us closer to it. His/Her/Its voice will be no louder or clearer than it is now. His/Her/Its miracles will be no less disputable than they are now.

God is unequal and unattainable. I have a hard time believing in God sometimes and other times I have no problem it depends on the situation and such. I would say no matter how far humans transcend their physicality they will not in any way be able to equal or even bring us closer. God is infinity silently in everything sometimes (for some people) audibly but no matter as a human no matter if you transcend or not infinity we are not.

How would it?

which one??????

I wanted to put don't know.

No, but mabye. If God is that part of us that can be reached through comtemplation of the self, then maybe the Singularity may afford the people of the world the time to truly ponder who or what they are. If knowledge becomes the one and only true commodity of the world than we may see less people slaving away at meaningless jobs just for the sake of surviving. Instead more and more individuls will pass the time with creative introspection.

We will never reach perfection, nor any gods we created.

All forms of truth lead us to the Truth.

There will be a knowledge increase of what came before, what is, and what will be.

Not to the fictional construct God as envisioned by most, but nearer to the abilities of a God ourselves, perhaps.

god? what god? which god? cripes.

There is no 'God', as capitalised and proclaimed by those who believe in him; in addition to the dubious concept of the 'technological singularity', I don't see that sudden accelerations in technology will fulfill our psychological needs. It might do so for AI machines, but 'we' are stuck as human.

Will make us/make us part of an entity that we (as of today) could only describe as having god-like powers.

Once survival is a given, the questions of WHY and WHO will loom much larger. Seek and ye shall find.

I believe in no such being. I do believe that Singularity would make us more like our modern conception of god then we currently are, however.

Moving all of humanity out of starvation, death and constant violence allows us to develop the better part of our possibilities. In exactly the same way that a modern suburban dweller has much more opportunity to be "good" than a starving barbarian who has to steal, kill or prostitute themselves to survive.

It will bring us closer to an understanding of the universe, and answer some of those questions we've used the concept of God to answer

How is it possible to get closer to a fairy?

If God exists, then God seems to thrive on "faith" and not proof of his/her/its existence. Given that thesis, God will always remain a moving target forever out of reach in this life.

Kinda repeating myself here, but: God is one giant computer, at the end of time, which is contiguous with the universe. The singularity represents the point at which mind really begins to expand into the universe, and is thus the birth of 'proto-God'.

hmm this is a hard question, because beyond the singularity, post-humans may have a new perspective on space/time, mortality, and may even be equipped to explore and communicate with the higher dimensions ( m-theory ) and thus may experience our "maker" or beings

It lacks emotion.

The more comfortable corporeal existance is, the less is the need for spiritual concerns.

What brings us closer to God is letting the Holy Spirit work within us to bring us to faith in Jesus, and then Jesus living in us.

See definition of god as the cosmos (question 1). I think post-TS beings will have a greater understanding of the cosmos than we do and therefore a deeper appreciation and a more profound spirituality vis the cosmos.

The technologicla singularity will be a vehicle for some, an obstacle for others, a bit of both for many. Mind and Spirit, on a higher level than technology or religion, is a whole other ball of wax.

How can it bring us closer to what we already are?

Everything we do can bring us closer to God, which is merely That Which We Are Seeking and Already Are.

Because there is no God.

God is Santa Claus for adults

see answer 13.

In the sense that we will be that much closer in our evolution towards the final singularity of God/Omega Point.

Also should be indeterminate, for reasons given above.

It will make us more like him

Some may find it godly in nature in and of itself. However it seems unlikey that an event of this nature would actually bring a profound metaphysical change.

If it makes us more intelligent, then we'll be more able to reason our way to Him.

God is a fiction created from our flawed biological brains.

Kurzweil said it best. Something like: God is infinite love, infinite knowledge... infinite in all things that are unquestionably good. The Singularity won't allow an infinite anything, but it will bring us orders of magnitude closer to all aspects of God.

If we can never approach infinity, how can we approach God?

we will be closer to omniscence and omnipotence, therefore gaining a deeper understanding about what kind of psyche/force god would be

We become closer to God as we gain a better understanding of ourselves and the world around us.

God is perfect. God made man in his image, God created biological evolution allowing nature to improve. Technological evolution is just a faster way of getting us closer to perfect. Perfect is God.

There is no god

Because it is a spiritual state and we won't be wasting time dealing with the physical inanities of everyday living.

There is no got to get closer to.

aside from the whole "does god exist?" issue, the TS will require serious changes to the way people think, that the participants are unliekly to even consider "god" while those on the outside will exhibit the sumptoms of jealousy and rage, and possibly worship.

People make mistakes.

Assuming there is no God, then of course not. However, in the unlikely circumstance that there is a God, and by "closer to God" you mean "more able to detect its existence", then yes, super-intelligence will be better able to find and analyze evidence in favor of a God.

Hard to get closer to something that if it exists is unfathomable

Being Agnostic means that if someone asks you whether something brings you closer to God, you have to ask "which God?"

See above (question 13).

Man is constructed so as to always have unfulfilled wants, desires and curiosities. They will always stretch the bounds of the possible, even if that range of possible is nearly or actually infinite. Most importantly, note that the limits of your survey are bounded by grammer and concepts built within it. Much of that will evolve, and traditional concepts become outmoded or trivial. (How many jokes from the 1940s or 1950s, recorded live, now seem funny?)

You need a "depends" answer. Closer to God in the sense of fellowship? No. Closer to God in the sense of capability? Yes.

Merely growing more powerful or capable does nothing to bring us across the vast gulf of cause and effect to which we are utter slaves, and therefore the TS by definition can bring us no closer to God.

If the God that exists is the creator of the universe, it will bring us closer to him by expanding our knowledge of the universe and its bounds. If this God does not exist, obviously the answer is no.

Please divide by zero for the answer.

God is, at best, an untestable hypothesis. While smarter minds might rule out most religions on the basis of internal inconsistency, the most generic kind of theism -- first cause-ism -- will never be disprovable.

I'm dubious that God exists, at least as defined by today's religions. The Singularity may increase our knowledge and understanding of the Universe, but I suspect this is only likely to show us where/what God isn't, rather than where/what God is.

Ha- it will bring God closer to US. Seriously, I don't see how our distance to or from God will change much. Those who believe are already "with God." Those who do not will have no more or less opportunity (or reason) to change their opinion.

You do not evolve into a state of grace, but achieve it through acceptance of God.

I don't believe in God. So I don't think anything can really bring us closer to God. It might make us more godlike.

God doesn't exist.

Nearness to God is a matter of our individual being, not of the tools we make use of (no matter how small, pervasive or comprehensive those may become). That said, there's no compelling reason I'm aware of for the Singularity to inhibit our approach to the Divinity either, if we choose not to let that occur.

Anything that improves our understanding of the Universe brings us closer to God, if God exists.

No god

Quite the contrary... it will force us to see our true piotential as humans as someting that has yet to be even minisculey tapped.

Hopefully we will be able to reflect a greater degree of the beauty and wonder of the Universe.

Even if total and abject technological trancendence does occur, there will still be folks who are dissastisfied.

If god is perfection, then surely the perfection of life after the singularity will enable us to merge with god.

Carrying on from my answer to question 9, really. God (as an apprehendable concept) will always be at a distance from the current human condition. When the two meet, new gods (or conceptions thereof) will inevitably be created.

Hard for an atheist to answer this one.

Whats up with these silly dichotomies...? It may or may not. Certainly the singularity could turnout to be an event that advances human consciouness to a higher level (I'm certainly hoping so)but it could easily mean the anhihilation of mortals. Who can know?

I have never understood how you can be 'closer' to god. If it exists you are already as close to it as you probably will ever be. It seems like being 'closer' to god is more of a personal feeling about how connected you are. I think at most we might learn something about the nature of a possible god through a full understanding of physics that a tech singularity might bring us.

The proper answer is "I don't know." You only allowed me to answer 'yes' or 'no', so I chose 'no'. For my real opinions on this question (which are too complex to fit into in this small space), you should read a science fiction short story I wrote about fifteen years ago titled "The Seed". Send me an email if you are interested and want to read it and I will reply with an ecopy: jackb (at sign here) sff (dot here) net

14 is a poorly worded question, since it assumes the singularity will occur, when it will not.

I believe we will discover God directly on the other side of the TS

There should be a don't know / not sure option

I think the concept of God is fundamentally ill defined and the search for God poorly conceived. Technology cannot solve logical faults like this.